Podcast : Handling Anxiety During Troubling Times
Listen as Tova, Wellspring President and Co-Founder talks with Goumah Conde, one of our counselors, about some practical steps to handling anxiety during this troubling time.
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Host: Tova Kreps, LCSW
wellspringmiami.org//Facebook // Linked-In
Guest: Goumah Conde
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Transcript:
Welcome to Wellspring on the Air. Where professional Christian counselors share practical life and Bible insights. Why? Because hearts and minds matter. We're glad you joined our show today to hear from our host Tova Kreps, president of Wellspring Counseling in Miami. Tova is a licensed therapist with many years of experience as a Christian counselor. Tova teaches, writes and consults and Life FM is pleased to have Wellspring counseling, restoring hearts and minds in our community.
Tova: Welcome to Wellspring on the Air. I'm Tova co-founder and president of Wellspring Counseling. And for our program today, I have one of our therapists here as a guest. Uh, Goumah Conde. Hi Goumah.
Goumah Conde: Good morning Tova how are you?
Tova: Good morning. We're glad to have you with us today. Um, these are trying times, aren't they?
Goumah: Yes, they are
Tova: They are. We're going to talk today about handling anxiety in troubling times and uh, we usually try to have programs that are not timestamped, but we're going to timestamp this one. We're in the middle of this coronavirus. Um, and we want to be here. We, Wellspring want to be here for our community and just talk about this challenging time that we're in. So how do we handle anxiety in these troubling times? And first I just want to say to our audience out there, uh, if you're listening and you are really kinda tipping over the point, uh, in your mental health, your anxiety feels more than you can manage.
Or maybe it's not anxiety. Maybe your depression, it was already there is worse. Maybe your addictions are kicking in because you're, you're trying to get a go to fix to feel better quickly. Any, any reasons that you are feeling like you need help. We want you to know that we're there for you. We have telehealth. You don't have to come in. You can just call our office. We'll set you up with a therapist. You can, uh, talk to us virtually. You can use your laptop, your computer, your phone if you need to. If you got too many people in your household or you can just sit in your car in the park, get some fresh air or something. But we want to be present for our community during this time. And, uh, so we are there for you and we just want you to know that.
But let's just talk about, um, this, this Coronavirus pandemic. Goumah, what do you, what do you think about what's going on here?
Goumah: Well, I think it's scary. You know, we all agree that it's scary and people are worried. But for me, what I've been saying to clients is that one way to reduce anxiety, it is, it's really to focus on the things that you have control over. There are things that we really can't control.
Tova: Lots of them
Goumah: No! you know
Tova: it's a normal, it's actually a normal way for people to, um, center themselves when they're out of control to gain things, control over what they can. So a really good example is everybody going into the grocery store, right? So really our grocery stores are not expected to ever close down, and yet we have this fear that I've just got, that's something I can do.
I can go hoard things, you know. And so it's an example of an emotional response that isn't even necessarily logical, you know, but that says, I this, I can do this cause I have to be able to do something within my power. Yes. Actually that's a good coping strategy. Maybe not hoarding, but to say what can I control so I feel better? It's actually helpful, right?
Goumah: Yeah, it is. Except, except if we're doing it because we're not able to control our impulses. That's where we have to struggle. Right? Because the reason we want to be in control is because wanting to feel okay. Wanting to feel like all is going to be well, we’re safe, everything is okay, but is it really okay if we purchase all these things and they go bad.
(laughter)
Tova: Okay, right? Maybe there are other things we can be in control of.
Okay, so for you listening out there, our first half of our program, we're going to talk about what we can control and how all those things can actually reduce our stress and then we actually have a better immune system. Even if we get the virus right, reducing our stress will create more immunity, will help us feel better, will help us handle our family better. And so let's, let's start with you that list. What can we control?
Goumah: It will keep us stronger for the long haul.
Tova: It will.
Goumah: Right? And so what's the first thing that we can control? For us, we're Christians. Let's go to prayer first. Our prayer life. Can we control that? Yeah.
Tova: Yeah, we can
Goumah: Right. And it's actually a good grounding tool. So if I'm anxious and I stop and I pause and I pray, I pray for leadership, government, I pray for leadership local. I pray for leadership where I work, I pray for guidance in my home right there. We're already taking control over that.
Tova: And in the process, God and the Holy spirit does calm us down. And our focus is on someone. God who doesn't change, who is faithful is a solid rock and doesn't move when all of the oceans tumble and when all the land moves and when all the pandemics come. He doesn't. And so the process of focusing on him actually does change us.
Goumah: Yes. Yes. And he is the one who was actually in control. So if we let it go to God, chances are we all going to feel much better. Yeah.
Tova: And we are His children, and so we get to go straight to Papa and ask him to fix it for us.
Goumah: I love that. Yes, indeed. Popeye's always there. Alright, so another thing that we can focus on that we do have control over is nutrition.
Tova: All right, let's talk about that
Goumah: So, we’ll talk about grocery store. And we’re not saying, “don't shop” We're not saying “don't get your groceries” What we're saying is when you do go to the grocery store, we know that research has shown that if we eat more green leaves and we eat more red vegetables and more orange fruits, we're better off. So when you're buying your chicken or your beef drop one or two oranges or lemon or lime,
Tova: you might even buy those frozen frozen fruits
Goumah: That’s right
Tova: But the point is, I had a friend send me a little meme yesterday of herself very, very, very heavy, you know, and she says, this is going to be me after coronavirus. And so yeah. she's stress eating and that stress eating all the wrong things because what we, what we crave are carbs. That's right.
Because that gives us a quick fix on our anxiety, right? Our serotonin, no, we feel good but it doesn't last. And then we get on this carb cycle that makes us actually feel more stressed and more unhealthy,
Goumah: and gain more weight and our tummy area, And we know that when we gain weight in our tummy area we are at risk for diabetes, hypertension. So we really want to be careful.
Tova: Okay. So we need to eat healthy foods,
Goumah: healthy foods, strive to look for those. Drop a little bit in there.
Tova: Okay. So related to nutrition, things we're putting in our mind. Let's talk about, I know we had on our list supplements and medications. So maintaining your medic, your prescriptions, don't go off of them, don't get so off track that you're not doing the normal things. Then your hormones start to swing or whatever else is not steady. But supplements, um, really are vitamin C.
we do know from research that you don't really need the vitamin C after you got something, you need it the two weeks prior to a stressful event. Well, since we're all in a stressful event, even just that supplement as well as other ones that help our immune system on the front end will make us feel better across the board Right?
Goumah: We know that natural vitamin C is just your line in water. If you can't find it, if you can't get to the, to the vitamin Shoppe, squeeze your lime in your water and drink it. It's nature has really blessed us and this is the time for us to focus on the blessings that we have. Take advantage of it.
Tova: It's really true. And so I think I'd just upping our, it's kind of like thinking about we're all entering like a marathon and you would, if you were training for a marathon, you wouldn't just start running.
You would say, wait, I got to think about what I eat. I gotta think about my rest, all of my nutrition. And so we're all entering a bit of a marathon here of where we need endurance, where we need strength and so we need to take it seriously that we need to take care of our bodies in order to stay mentally sane for the process.
Goumah: We really do, we really do and Tova, I'm really big on the medication, so I really want to emphasize a little bit. Okay. I have other clients who are on medications. It is extremely important. I make this every session. I talk about it with them. Stay on your medication. Do not stop except you have permission from your doctor to do so. You don't want to end up in a crisis and have to sit in the ER when they have patients who tend to, so it's really important to take your medication from your psychiatrist, from your primary care.
Take them. Don't stop.
Tova: Yeah, we really don't want to be going to that in any near future if we can help it so we can do those things. All right, so beyond um, prayer, nutrition, supplements and medication. Let's talk about exercise.
Goumah: Yeah! Yep, my favorite that I don't like to do.
Tova: Well, my gym just closed and I got to tell you, I really, I go, I try to go two to three times a week. It is one of my sanity keepers. When I go there, they work me so hard. I can't think about work. I can't think about anything except breathing and do the next thing and survive the class. And so now they closed and I'm like, I can't ma, I have to go to a gym because I can't make myself work harder. I'm not really, I'm just not that discipline.
Goumah: It's hard for most of us.
Tova: So I have missed already this week cause I said I'll go home and do it, but ask me if I did. No, I didn’t so I'm going to have to figure that out. Fortunately my daughter is home from college and she said, mom, I'll, I'll, I'll give you, put you through my class. And so we're going to try. But um, I have to, I realize if I start letting that slip, I'm going to be in big trouble.
Goumah: So I have an elderly father at home who's in his seventies and you know, they're at risk right now in this, in the COVID-19 season. But one of the things I've said to him is even we can get outside, just walk back and forth in the house, back and forth, back and forth as you're watching television, just move.
Tova: But we can go outside.
Goumah: Yes we can!
Tova: Outside is our safe place to be, you know, keep our social distance. But getting out to the park, the fresh air is good for us. As it gets hotter, it'll kill anything on us. You know, the virus will die and, and that's a good thing.
Goumah: That is true. But we also have some clients and patients who cannot go out.
Tova: That's correct.
Goumah: So that shouldn't stop you still. You can open your doors and still get the fresh air in, open the windows, but move even in the chair, just move.
Tova: Well, and there are a lot of programs have at home sessions where we can put our virtual things on and we can, do still do a class and have somebody coaching us, but virtually. And we just need to make that happen. Yeah. Maybe do it as a family. We're stuck with our family members, you know, I'm going to do with my daughter. We all do it together. It's a little more fun.
And um, but we need to take it very seriously because that counteracts the, the anxiety that, it takes all that down
Goumah: yes, It brings up those happy hormones are up are we're exercising. And so the more we have them up, the better we are. The less stressed we are, the less prone we are to diseases.
Tova: That's true. Well, it's thinking of diseases. I know we do have hygiene on the list because when we're afraid some people are very afraid of the virus, although I feel very encouraged that it, if I get, God willing, I'm very healthy and I'll be fine. Um, but, but I can feel in control if I've got my hands washed, and right? We’re talking about feeling in control
Goumah: feeling in control. So how are you in control? I wash my hands every, well, CDC is saying every 15 to 20 minutes, get up and wash your hands. So do that.
Wash it moisturized to keep the germs from sitting on your skin. That helps. So do that. If you don't have access to soap and water, use your sanitizer. I carry a wipe around in my purse. I bought a few of those little packets and I keep them for door knobs, my cell phone every now and then. Just keep yourself safe and keep others safe around you.
Tova: It's really true. And I heard even this was a different one. I hadn't heard that, that um, we know the virus doesn't do well in hot right and so we should be sipping hot water all day long. I don't know if you heard that one? because it'll rinse it out of your mouth and it'll go down and your digestive system and die as opposed to through your soft tissue membranes. So if we just sip hot tea all day long, you know, I say tea, not coffee cause we don't need coffee all day long,
Goumah: no, not for anxiety
Tova: but a nice herbal tea that's a little hot and we just kind of sip it. We'll be doing great, right?
Goumah: and that will help us even with weight if we're sipping tea all day, we're not feeling the need to binge eat, so that helps too.
Tova: Oh, that's true. Plus we're hydrated, so we're healthier. All that good stuff.
(Inaudible)
Tova: So, our hygiene helps us feel in control. All right, we're coming up to a break time. Um, but hopefully you guys are thinking creatively with us here about what can I be in control over that's going to help me feel better and then boost my immune system. When we come back from the break, we're going to talk about the positive things we can add into our lives, not just what can we control, but what can we add at this time? So, if you're just joining us, this is Tova with Wellspring on the Air. I have Goumah Conde, one of our great therapists with us, and we'll be right back after a short break. All right.
Commercial Break: Wellspring is honored to have Keyes Realty as a presenting sponsor for the Shattering the Stigma, a mental health event. At its core real estate is about community and Keyes is a community that cares both internally and externally. They believe that their success inspires them to give back.
Tova: hi, welcome back to Wellspring on the Air. I am Tova and I'm the president and cofounder of Wellspring in with me today. I have one of our therapists, Goumah Conde. Hi.
Goumah: Hi. Tova. How are you?
Tova: If you are just joining our show and want to hear the beginning of the show, we're talking about anxiety in these troubling times and how to reduce that, how to manage that. And so we're just going to talk about that. So if you want to find us on our podcast or your favorite podcast station, you may do that. Or you can find us on our website, wellspringmiami.org or your favorite podcast, Wellspring on the Air and hear the beginning of this show. But otherwise, let's just jump back in. We've talked first about we can reduce our anxiety by thinking through what we can control on in a conscious way.
I can control my eating, I can control my medications, I can control my schedule well to some degree. But our supplements, our nutrition, our hygiene, all those things make us feel less stressed out. And so it actually boosts our immune system. But moving past that, we want to talk about what we can control but what we can add into our lives to make our lives better during this hard time. And so you might want to think of it like a spoonful of sugar goes the medicine. You know, what's the sugar we can add in to our, lives, um, that's going to, that's going to help us feel a whole lot better even though we're in these troubling times. So Goumah, what's the first thing we want to add?
Goumah: Enjoy family time. Let's, let's turn this around, right? Some of us are going, “Oh my goodness, we’re stuck a whole week in the house with everybody
It can be stressful. Yes. Especially if we have young children. But how about we turn that into family time? Really quality time, right? So maybe we do cooking together
Tova: something new
Goumah: something new. Right. To show kids how to make some eggs, some pancakes, all of those things that we can all do them together. That's one thing to do. Movie time
Tova: family games
Goumah. Mmm Hmm family games
Tova: family company. I have this on my list when they were going to have a couple other shows where I have a show, a whole show on being at home with your family and managing that and so we'll have some strategies.
Goumah: Yeah. Yeah, but rather just rather instead of focusing on all the negatives that this could bring us, really turn it into something positive. That's really the goal is to make this a great experience so that at the end of this we can laugh and talk about stories and we'll be building memories really
Tova: We are building memories and adding in those family times. I was going to say family competitions where who can finish their task for the day so that we can get to the family game time or the family movie or whatever and so you can say who finishes first. Everyone has an assignment, you got to go do this homework, you got to do that work. And then we, we get together and we reward ourselves with, with goodies and the family or you know, time with mom or whatever. That is just fun.
Goumah: Yeah, it is. Sounds good. I like it. Yeah.
Tova: So let's add another topic here, which has to do with fun in the, in the realm of humor. So there's a great deal of research out there that humor literally does lift our spirits, raises those endorphins, makes us happy. And so how can we add humor?
Goumah: find anything to laugh about.
And um, I have this weird sense of humor to begin with. So I'm doing, I'm the worst person to talk to, but you know, we're going to do a whole different show on this. But being a war survivor, that's how we survived. We had made jokes out of everything. If we had to run from one city to the next, it, it became something funny. You know, who forgot what, who didn't take what, you know, and all of those things, we just turn them into jokes and it really kept us going. And it kept us healthy and happy. And so you're not, you're not drained thinking about what's the next bad thing that's going to happen.
Tova: Well, I love that and we are just for our listeners, we want you to know, we're going to do a whole show with Goumah about being a war survivor and um, so we're not in a war, so we can be grateful, but we are surviving a very hard time but humor is important. So at our office we've been passing out all these little, you know, sending each other constant jokes and um, there are so many out there right now. People have got some pretty good humor going on and all these memes, all these little images and, and um, those things are really good for our mental health, aren't they?
Goumah: They are. And I'm going to tell you too, but yesterday I was at home just sitting there and you know, the ones that, so my other work and every 20 minutes I look forward to some coming through in in our little community online, um, our Wellspring community that we have. And it was, it was great. We kept it going all day. And so we laughed. And I can imagine most of us who were probably anxious early in the morning felt a bit reduced anxiety by the end of the day, even though we're working and busy.
Tova: Yeah. So I think a family can have a, a family group text and send things to each other. We have one called “The Fam” and we send each other funny things and maybe a small neighborhood community or a group community. And as we had these little chats going or little WhatsApps or whatever people use in small groups and it keeps us socially connected and it brings humor and it's, and it helps us know where we're in this together and, and it's there, there's still humor in life.
Goumah: Oh yeah. There is, it's not all serious it and it really, we can't afford for it to be all serious
Tova: and even when it is all serious and people are losing their jobs, these things, we're not trying to make fun of severe financial crisis for people. Um, genuine fear and anxiety. It is the spoonful of sugar goes the medicine because as we face very sobering things and economically sobering things, we have to remember that there is joy in the moment and there's humor. Even in the midst of these kinds of crisis,
Goumah: Yeah! Yeah! we can always find a reason to, to celebrate something.
Tova: All right, so thinking about adding new things in and so let's talk about intentionally thinking about positive things. Now, scripture tells us that we should do that. Whatever is pure and right and good. These are the things we need to consciously choose to think about. So what are the things that we can and how can we consciously put in our minds positive thoughts?
Goumah: Well, we'll talk about the --- being intentional. What it really means for me, the simple way I put it is to remind ourselves, okay. Right? Because it's easy for us to drift off. That's what the mind does. It drifts
Tova: we go to the negative.
Goumah: Well, we can go very easily, right? And so we remind ourselves, if I see myself drifting off, then I have to catch myself and bring myself back.
Tova: Okay? So practically, for instance, we could say twice a day and you can do this in your family at dinner time or whatever. 10 good things to be thankful for it. That's a conscious, it's a simple little step. But by the time you hit number 10, you actually do feel a little better. It actually changes your mental health state. So twice a day, 10 good things, consciously making lists with each other of positive outcomes, speaking words. You know, scripture says speaking in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. So giving each other scripture, um, and speaking it to each other. So we're thinking about the things that are also true. We're not saying the negative things aren't true. We're saying there are positive things that are also true and we're going to intentionally put them in front of us. Right?
Goumah: Yeah. Yep. Watching our breathing, you know, we're supposed to be breathing very deeply. We don't , most of us, I'm a shallow breather myself, but I remind, I remind myself throughout the day, take deep breaths.
Tova: Well, I just don't hear it in my daughter's Apple watch cause she lost it and then replace it and then found it. So now it's mine. But it has the little breathing thing on there and it tells me stand up and it tells me to breathe my reminders. And so that's very important. When we're very stressed, we breathe very shallowly and quickly. And so just the intentional slow breathing tells our body we're okay. And then the psyche gets better than our stress hormones reduce, because it's a way sipping the water does the same thing. It tells you, your body's telling your mind it's, “it's OK, you're, your alive, you're okay.” And so it's very important that we add that breathing
Goumah: and breathing has been proven scientifically to be one of the primary natural resources to reducing anxiety and depression. It is permanent. So, so, so easy. Right? And then a gift from God. Hey, so many gifts.
Tova: It's true. Yeah. Well along those lines we could do something that's similar, but even bigger in that’s yoga, there's a huge piece of research that yoga really does help reduce our stress. And there is Christian yoga for those of you who feel like yoga is not Christian, they didn't invent anything that God didn't already for us. And so there are some, you can do it remotely and get online and find Christian yoga and you can do it as a family. Um, even if you can't go to a yoga studio to do it, you can, you can do those things and it can actually take everybody's stress level down.
Yeah. All right, we've got a related, let's talk about mindfulness. What's mindfulness?
Goumah: Well, going back to being conscious, being aware, those are all ways that we can be mindful, right? Um, I'm aware of what's happening around me. So something that we do. For example, EMDR, I was holding, grounding, looking around you and identify five things you see or something you see, you smell, you taste, you can touch, right? You can, you can hear. So even if we just did that, what do I see right now? What can I smell? Fresh air What can I taste right?
Tova: And we call that mindfulness because what you are as mindful of your environment and it takes you down to the moment. So it includes the deep breathing. But in that moment you're like, “what do I, what am I sensing, what am I seeing?” and that kind of thing and so you're very in the moment, which takes you out of the worry of the future and out of, um, the pain of the past. It's, its present living.
Okay. Um, let's think about other positive things we can add. And um, one of the things I was thinking of just to tell our audiences that, um, we Wellspring are putting a bunch of resources online. Yeah. So there are great resources coming out. I mean, people are putting things out there that are helpful, and Wellspring is going to try, we're populating a whole page on mental health resources during this time. So everything from blogs to, uh, links to other great things people have put out there to podcasts, to um, practical things that people do in their families. We're going to try and resource our community. It's all free and we want people to know you can just add those things into your life.
Sometimes people have great ideas that we didn't think of. And so being creative about what are the resources out there that people have. Um, I want to talk a little bit in terms of, we were talking about what to add, uh, earlier we did not say that you should limit your media exposure, but we actually do need to limit that and add positive in. So you do probably need to keep track of the news a little bit cause we have announcements coming out every day. But go to a a reputable resource. Yeah. Get what you need to know and then turn it off because all of the media is actually creates a great deal more anxiety. So get what you need to know, but then add something positive in. So whether that's that comedy to make you laugh or a positive music to change your mood, positive podcasts that give you upbeat things, scripture, all these things that we can input into our mind from the outside other than the fear anxiety. Do you have other ideas on that?
Goumah: Yeah, no, I'm, for me, I'm big on the music thing. I do that a lot. Last night I was dancing with my daughter and my five-year-old, she goes, “mommy, did you dance when you were young?” “No, but I just feel like dancing” so we dance all yesterday evening. She was brushing her teeth for bed. I put on a show for her. But so those kinds of, those kinds of things, doing those are some of the things that they don't really expect you to do, you know, lighten their day.
Tova: That reminds me of something I did. Um, I homeschool my kids one year, um, in order to kind of get my kids on track and understand them better and some of their school issues. So, but there was a point at which my husband's like, “are they going to survive this?” You know, and I think probably some of the families are going to feel that way in a week or two. They've had their kids home. So one day we were just all done. I mean, I had two kids and they were in fourth and sixth grade and we just hit like a limit, uh, emotional limit, that day and so I don't know where this came from in my head, but I said to them, I said, “all right, you know, we were all yelling at each other and I said, go in your room and put on your bathing suit.”
And they're like, “huh” And so I said, “just do it” you know? And I was so mad. And so they went in there and then I went in the kitchen and I pulled out canned food and I opened up all these cans and just, you know, just stuff. And then we went out, I said, “go outside” And we went outside, and I gave him each two cans or a couple of cans and put them front and they're like, “what are we doing?” And then I had my own cans and I started throwing it on them and they were like so shocked. “My mom's throwing beans on me” or whatever. And then they realize they got to throw it back. Then we had a food fight. And we picked it up and pitched, picked it up pitched it. It was so gross and so funny. And then we just hosed off. It was hot, you know, and we just stood there and we, and we didn't, we just needed it. And we, all my kids still talk about it and they're in their 30’s and they’re like, “Oh, remember the day we had the food fight in the backyard?” And so sometimes you just got to break the tension with humor. You can do something your kids don't expect. Make it fun! Laugh
Goumah: Do a trivia, it's a good time to do trivia. Like, you know, get questions from online and just toss it around and people answer and guess. And we can really make this time fun. We really can. And even though we're, you know, enclosed and we made few claustrophobics, we can really make it fun.
Tova: All right guys, I feel kind of inspired and up just talking about this. Even though we have some stressful things in our family, there are hard times coming and so we just want to be here. So ---
Goumah: Tough times don’t last, tough people do.
Tova: Oh, I love that. Say that one more time.
Goumah: Tough times don't last tough people do.
Tova: That's true. And we develop skills of resilience in this. God says, trials change us. They teach us to be patient, to endure, to be perfected is even the word. You know, we're not perfect yet, but God makes us better people through hard times.
And so the way we're going to do that is by being intentional about being positive and doing the things we can control. So on that note, um, we had a couple of scriptures. Let's just read a few of those that we have to close out
Goumah: Let me read my favorite one is “an anxious heart weighs a man down, but a kind word cheers him open. That's Proverbs 12:25
Tova: and I have a John 14: 27 “Peace. I leave to you.” That's Jesus telling us “It is my own peace that I give you. I do not give it as the world does. Do not be worried and upset. Do not be afraid.”
Goumah: Amen. Amen. I love it. Alright. And then I like my other one I like is “When anxiety was great within me, your consolation brought joy to my soul, and that is Psalm 94:19
Tova: and then I have 2 Timothy 1:7 “for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind”
Goumah: Amen!
Tova: Yes. So on that note, it's time to close and time to wrap up. This is Tova Kreps with Wellspring on the Air because hearts and minds matter
End: Wellspring on the Air is a production of Wellspring Counseling, a nonprofit professional counseling center with multiple locations in Miami Dade County. Wellspring’s therapists are licensed by the state of Florida and Christian in their worldviews. They have wide ranges of clinical expertise, including marriage, family, anxiety, depression, and trauma. They're diverse group of therapists includes several who speak Spanish or Portuguese. If you would like to know more about Wellspring services of counseling and education, go to their website at wellspringmiami.org or give them a call at 786-573-7010 or email them at ontheair@wellspringmiami.org again, you can find a way to contact them at wellspringmiami.org